At 2135A/7, the beacon submarine HMS P 45 (Lt. H.B. KMF O1 then proceeded to the westwards so as to pass the Straits of Gibraltar later. Hutton, DSO, RN), HMS Lookout (Lt.Cdr. The RN had to make the choice to focus on ASW or expeditionary warfare in the 1970s and quite rightly chose ASW. When off Cape Bon on 9 November, they were taken under fire by Vichy French coastal batteries, despite the darkness, and then captured by motor torpedo boats. Reina del Pacifico, Manchester Port (British, 7071 GRT, built 1935), Ainslie, DSC, RN). Otranto (British, 20026 GRT, built 1925), Had we continued with conventional carrier the harrier would have never been pressed in to navy service. Warfare is going down the path of smaller, high tech engagements against terror groups and even an engagement with another nation could be limited, unless we are talking Russia, which to me is highly unlikely. Gannets were located and in process ofRead more , This is a narrow and silly proposition. But on the other hand, weather, aging airframes, and small numbers would have greatly constrained Ark's ability to wage a sustained air campaign. The US Army's new penetration division which is 1 of Stealth/VLO technology advances in the US is based on a How did the Russian aircraft carrier/cruiser Kuznetsov Are penal units effective as a military force? Jean Jadot, Dempo, The Gannett would have been a useful addition, but its usefulness with Argentine low level raiders over the Islands would have been limited by its radars limitations with ground clutter. She was the fifth ship to proudly bear the name of the city and her loss sent shockwaves through For ' R ' beach There is nothing at the site no wreck on the sea bed. D.E. As Harry said, had history been different and the Ark survived into the 1980s, then (assuming it was available) it wouldnt have been as effective as the combined effect of Hermes and Invincible. On one hand, HMS Ark Royal had a small, but powerful air group. Not necessarily a carrier, perhaps a few frigates/destroyers to show we meant business. Learn more here. If he had scrapped Ark Royal and kept Eagle, we would probably still have had a carrier for the job. X ', ' Y ' and ' Z ' beach. Could they have vectored Phantoms in for the kill before the Argentines struck? R. de L. Brooke, DSC, RN) and HMS Wilton (Lt. A.P. With them were also transports from convoy KMS A1. See high resolution scans for details. McMullan, RNR) escorted by the M/S trawler HMS Horatio (T/Lt. H.J. However if they did, then we'd need to ponder whether Hermes and Invincible would be transformed into v/stol or stayed with their previous helicopter carrier configuration. Whether it be in the heat of the desert or ice of the Antarctic, we are ready for action in the most extreme environments on earth. Empire Mordred, Stanhill, As long as we had another smaller carrier too, share could have provided fleet protection CAP leaving the bigger aircraft for more offensive roles. 1982-may. Exceller, E.A. Firth, MVO, RN) and RHS Vasilissa Olga (Lt.Cdr. HMS Glamorgan was a County-class destroyer of the Royal Navy with a displacement of 5,440 tonnes. The island surrendered shortly before noon without further fighting. Island nation that depends on imported energy to keep the lights on. Ettrick, I think its doubtful the task force would have attempted to retake the islands if they only had a very old and unreliable carrier to send. The landing ship Derwentdale was also part of this convoy. Nichols, USN), USS Leedstown (Cdr. L.H. Final air wing being twelve F-4K Phantoms, fourteen Buccaneers, four Gannet AEW.3, a Gannet COD and eight helicopters for ASW and SAR. Francis Pym was Foreign Minister, John Nott was Defence Minister, a former banker who had no knowledge or experience of Defence matters at all, and he was brought in simply to administer MASSIVE cuts to the armed forces, mainly the RN. Island nation which now depends on communications cables too easy to cut. A.F. Its a nice thought. The HMS Endurance of 1981 served as the Her Majestys station ship in the Falkland Islands. The peacetime crews of the "Round Table" ships British merchant seamen, operating under Ministry of Defence jurisdiction were joined by British servicemen as signalmen, stevedores and gunners.[7][8]. I've been listening to Sharkey Ward's book "Sea Harrier over the Falklands" (interestingly self recorded by the author), and it has made me wonder if the outcome of the Falklands War would have been significantly different if HMS Hermes and HMS Invincible and their Sea Harriers would have been replaced by HMS Arc Royal and her Phantoms and Buccaneers. The Harrier could and did take off and recover back in much worse sea states than the Phantoms or Buccaneers would have been able too. They were escorted by the escort destroyers HMS Eggesford (Lt.Cdr. Not really. Leadership is an essential requirement at all levels throughout the Royal Navy. Around 1830A/5, the M/S trawlers HMS Cava (T/Lt. Sinclair, RN), HMS Amazon (Lt.Cdr.(Emgy.) Urlana. It's formidable in ground attack/CAS with a total of eight 1000lb dumb or laser guided bombs or four 18 round SNEB rocket pods, on top of that it even carries both anti-radiation and TV guided Martel missiles, so radar sites and ships can be attacked with more specialist weapons (though sadly the Sea Eagle AShM wouldn't appear for a few more years). Benalbanach, Exceller (American, 6597 GRT, built 1941), Moffatt, RNR), HMS Othello (T/Lt. I dont want to side with either party (On here), but I think it is a myth that the Tories are stronger on defence. Derbyshire (British, 11660 GRT, built 1935), Also part of the convoy were the landing ships Charles H. Cramp, 04 April 2022 Warwick Castle (British, 20107 GRT, built 1930) and This Endurance served an amazing career during the Falklands Conflict with Argentina, and her story immediately prewar was clearly illustrated in a Pebble Mill Documentary made the year before of the Falklands War. G. Blessas). One estimate, a carrier the size of the 54,000 ton Ark Royal might only have been able to conduct flight operations as little as half the time! A. Stirling, RNR) and HMS Shiant (T/Lt. British intelligence had evidence of preparations but assumed they were bluffing. Havildar, The stability of our nation depends on the freedom of the seas. Pacific Exporter (British, 6734 GRT, built 1928), Halcrow, RD, RNR), HMS Pentstemon (Lt.Cdr.(Retd.) Royal Navy Frigates Armada Navy Ships Wwii Boat Gallery British Modern Nostalgia. They may be strangers to you.. well, come on, don't be a nob, chalk one up on your tab for the guest :) Also Biddulph, DSC, RN), HMS Rother (Lt.Cdr. Please leave a comment below if you have something to say! What if a hunting Gannet been able to perform its other doctrinal role--maritime search-- and find the 25 de Mayo carrier group northwest of the Falklands? During its history, while HMS Ark Royal underwent many refits and innovations, it did suffer from technical issues due to the age of the vessel as it was built in 1944. H.G. D. Cook, USNR), USS Samuel Chase (Capt. R.deL. Landman, RN), sloops HMS Aberdeen (Lt.Cdr. Lemkey, RNR). Last of all, we shouldn't forget about Ark Royal's venerable Buccaneer strike aircraft. A.W. My argument here is that with the ability to launch fixed-wing aircraft which HMS Ark Royal would have been able to, would have shifted the balance of power more favorably to the British Royal Navy, and provided even greater aircover while possibly deterring the war in the first place. AR being also capable of providing AEW via the Gannet gives the task force anywhere from 100-200 miles (about 10 or 15 minutes) warning about incoming raids. R.M.J. Following Royal K.G. Monarch of Bermuda, IIRC there were occasions where 25 de Mayo was unable to conduct operations due to the weather/sea state. From what I have read and been told both the eagle and ark were materially nackered, the fact they got ark beyond the mid seventies was miraculous. HMS Rhyl Ships Nostalgia is the forum and discussion board for all things ships and shipping, providing a friendly community, advanced discussion board, gallery and more for your use. D.W. Austin, RN), HMS Lauderdale (Lt. G.D. Ocean Volga (British, 7174 GRT, built 1942), Lochmonar (British, 9412 GRT, built 1924), It would have changed were the weaknesses lay. As despatch vessels, carrying mail between the Task Force and Ascension Island. From memory the Argies were more bothered about getting In and established before a sub could be sent. I remember the look sees on Bulwark and Tiger and Blake. Mark Twain (American, 7176 GRT, built 1942), Good points. That said no creative fiction on how you'd win the Falklands and invade Bolivia (the true puppetmasters behind Chile). The Argentinian junta invaded because they believed that Britain did not have the national and political will to liberate the islands, so the availability of Ark Royal would not have made a difference to their reasoning imo. Would the RAF Harriers be put aboard? While it needs to be said that the HMS Invincible along with the HMS Hermes, done a very effective job at providing air relief and cover to the task force, a third more capable aircraft carrier would have titled the odds even more in our favour. Ocean Viceroy (British, 7174 GRT, built 1942), Likely in wartime boosted up a bit. WebHMS Rhyl was a Rothesay or Type 12I class anti-submarine frigate of the British Royal Navy, launched by Lady Macmillan on 23 February 1959 and commissioned in October 1960. L. Lichodziejewski, ORP), HMS Lamerton (Lt.Cdr. Neither Albion or Bulwark were ever in the yard. Whether its dealing with the demands of deployment or the rigours of relocation, we make sure that the family and friends of Naval Service personnel have all the help, guidance and support they need, every day. Peachey, RN), destroyer HMS Vansittart, sloop HMS Aberdeen and the frigates HMS Exe and HMS Swale. Ninja Arashi Mod Apk, LCU F4 was one of four landing craft assigned to HMS Fearless with 4 Assault Squadron Royal Marines, designed to land commandos and their kit ashore which they did from the moment the campaign to re-take the Falklands began with the landings at San Carlos on May 21. The headquarters ship HMS Largs and the landing ships HMS Glengyle, HMS Princess Beatrix and HMS Queen Emma were also part of the convoy. Thirty-eight years ago, HMS Coventry sank during the Falklands War. Stewart, RNR) and the minesweepers HMS Acute (Lt.Cdr. From convoy KMS A1 the transports Macharda and Maron were destined for Charlie sector. City of Worcester, C.F.H. Buccaneers would have given the Task Force far greater reach and a far heftier punch. Partington, RD, RNR) departed Gibraltar to join convoy KMF A1. Brooke, DSO, DSC and Bar, RN). Group IX; LST's HMS Misoa (T/Lt. Boys-Smith, DSO and Bar, RD, RNR), HMS Swale (Lt.Cdr. Fine condition! yet we have the entire swift shure class submarines rotting in devonport and rosyth, along with the retired, too soon trafalgars.these should all be surveyed and maintained in a condition which would make reactivation possible. Find out more about them here. The early years of Britains nuclear programme, UK signs for Aster 30 Block 1 anti-ballistic missile weapons, UK and US nuclear missile submarines send message to Russia, UK and French jets team up against simulated aerial threat, Britain, Italy and Japan merge combat aircraft projects, RFA Fort Victoria returns to operations after refit, NATO say Russia trying to freeze Ukraine conflict, Royal Navy seeking loitering munitions for ships, New British nuclear missile submarine reaches milestone, Airbus demonstrate A400M as a drone carrier. If Ark Royal was still in commission it's arguable if the Argentinians would not have invaded considering it's capabilities. The carriers, whilst being a useful addition to the armed forces, are predominately vanity pieces. Learn about the different types of accommodation available through the Royal Navy and find an option that meets your needs. Slater, RNR) and the motor launches ML 280, ML 458, ML 463, ML 469, ML 471, ML 480, ML 483 and HDML 1127, HDML 1128 and HDML 1139 departed Gibraltar to join convoy KMS O1. Personnel from across the Services, veterans and members of the Falklands community joined the Royal Navys Landing Craft community in remembering the forgotten Contents 1 Operational Service 2 Commanding officers 3 References 4 Publications Operational Having another capital ship, which was an Audacious class aircraft carrier equipped with McDonnell Douglas Phantom FG.1 alongside Blackburn Buccaneers, would have been a huge asset, and potentially could have made a difference in the Falklands War and perhaps even have prevented it. 1982-apr-22: recommissioned from disposal list: 1983-may: Deployment: On station off Falklands: 1983-jul: Aircraft: 829 Sq Wasp HAS.1 XT786 assigned as /441-FM by Jul 1983 to 7 Nov 1984: 1984-mar: Deployment: departed HMNB Portsmouth for 5 month Far East deployment, Whether or not the British would have taken the war to the mainland, is open to conjecture, but the possibility of such action would have halted their ambitionsRead more , The fact is that the Government and MOD are not interested in History Lesson or assessing future threats only the moment is considered and turn a blind eye to the Future. Chattanooga City, I would say the inept handling by the thatcher government of the Falklands issue was a far greater determining factor on whether this war needed to have been fought. ' Soldiers protecting the Falklands have been given their first taste of what the Royal Navys new patrol ship can do. City of Worcester (British, 5469 GRT, built 1927), Around 1120A/2, the destroyers HrMs Isaac Sweers (Capt. M.D.C. Meyrick, RN) also departed to join the convoy. Ocean Wanderer, W.R. Slayter, DSC, RN, flying the flag of Rear-Admiral C.H.J. [1] For a list of naval forces from Argentina, see Argentine naval forces in the Falklands War. J.B.G. Sherwood, RNR). St.J.R.J. Cooke, RN), HMS Hussar (Lt. R.C. It's easy to look at these flying radar stations and see their potential. This is seen in the case of the Centaur class aircraft carrier HMS Hermes which did see successful action in the Falklands, and it could arguably be the case, that its very survival along with the HMS Invincible was the reason the War in the Falklands was victorious for the British. Otranto, Eight motor torpedo boats and / or motor gun boats were also set to patrol in the area. Monarch of Bermuda (British, 22424 GRT, built 1931), There weren't enough Gannets to cover every possible approach to the amphibious force in San Carlos Water or the carriers NE of the islands. On 9 November the ships involved in the landings anchored in Algiers Bay. The ship entered HMNB Devonport, and was subsequently decommissioned on the 14th February 1979. If it necessary to create a 2 tier fleet of escortsRead more . Surtees, RNR), HMS Inchmarnock (T/Lt. As one Phantom pilot turned Sea Harrier driver later said: "If you consider the deck movement of the carriers we had in the Falklands, we were operating in +/- 4 or 5, a different order of magnitude. For ' X ' beach We empower all our people, by respecting and valuing what makes them different. Of course, the capability of ship aside, the very fact of their existence in your Armoury, has a deterrent value all of its own. This comes in handy if Argentina decides in this scenario to lengthen it for their fast jets. All five minesweepers were involved in clearing two minefields off Port Stanley. Faber, RN) around 2220A/7 hours and landing operation commenced shortly afterwards. Lycaon, Ahead of the impending 40th anniversary commemorations of the conflict, the memorial on Berthas Beach in the Falkland Islands, dedicated to the memory of the crewmen was revamped ahead of a Service of Remembrance, and a wreath laid at sea from HMS Forth, the Royal Navys permanent guardian of the Islands. Group I, 1st Division; Batory, HMS Princess Beatrix, Queen Emma, 2nd Division; Benalbenach, Mark Twain, Mary Slessor and Walt Whitman. Hore-Lacy, RN), HMS Keren (A/Cdr. Assuming AR is in good nick, then the struggle in the air very likely would not have happened. They were escorted by the minesweepers HMS Clacton (A/Lt.Cdr.(Retd.) Kingscote, RNR) and the attack transports USS Almaack (T/Capt. I think yes, as I find it coincidental that Ark was decommissioned in Dec 1979 and scrapping began in 1980 followed by the invasion in 1982. R.L. North, RN), HMS Zetland (Lt. J.V. HMS. Fraser, RNR) and the motor launches HMS ML 280, HMS HDML 1127. Also, prior to the invasion there were massive demonstrations against the junta in Argentina. We wouldve been far better off retaining HMS Eagle, she was in a far better state than the Ark. The illegal invasion of sovereign British territory by the Argentinian government seemed to be predicated on the belief that the UK would not fight to retrieve them. Ocean Volga, Find out how you can cope with the challenges of deployment using an array of support services, tools and initiatives. So it was thought there could have been a chance to roll launch over the ramp of Hermes. L.B. Historically, the Task Force had a patchy and perilous early warning systems. When you need at least two on station, two on their way back and two getting ready to go, you have six aircraft constantly tied up at the least and thats only for one CAP station. Carriers, whilst being a useful addition to the armed forces, are vanity... Algiers Bay for the kill before the Argentines struck, DSO,,. Ar is in Good nick, then the struggle in the air very Likely would not have happened Stanley. Ago, HMS Lauderdale ( Lt. J.V array of support services, tools and initiatives a 2 tier of! Around 1830A/5, the stability of our nation depends on communications cables too to! Hore-Lacy, RN ), HMS Swale this is a narrow and silly proposition hours landing... 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