the Armed Forces of the United States (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard), the commissioned corps During my time in the regulars, I encountered a couple of West Point Grads who, in my opinion had amused contempt for enlisted personnel below the rank of E5. Maj. Michael A. Crosby, left, bears the colors of Army Futures Command, as General Mark Milley, 23rd Secretary of the Army Mark Esper, and General John M. Murray unfurl the colors on 24 August 2018, in Austin, Texas A command sergeant major ( CSM) is a non-commissioned rank and position of office in the United States Army. They dont commission until CW2 but I guess they dont really count as Officers either. And yet, the UCMJ does hold all commissioned officers, including CW2-CW5, accountable for their behavior, as they are subject to Article 133, Conduct Unbecoming and Officer and Gentlemen. It is not just West Point cadets who outrank NCO's. I had a CO at one point who absolutely had a genuine dislike for NCOs and believed them to be useless. It's virtually guaranteed there are at least one or two SNCO in a given company qualified to take a short term command of the company. I've seen this relationship play out in the Army. You missed it my good first sergeant so I dutifully call your attention to it. I always say Semper Fi or Airborne when I return salute. CSM Craven has also earned the German, Chilean, and Australian Parachutist badges and is a member of the Prestigious Sergeant Audie Murphy Club. Life 101. (1) If a commander of an Army element, other than a commander of a headquarters and headquarters element, dies, becomes disabled, retires, is reassigned, or is temporarily absent, the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier will assume command. However, I don't see the wisdom of placing a SNCO in command of a company ahead of a cadet. Battalion Command Sergeant Major, 1BN, 1st Regiment, USCC at United States Military Academy at West Point United States Military Academy at West Point View profile View profile badges Example: In the U.S. Military a Warrant Officer (W-2W-5) are commissioned but are not gentlemen officers. So there is definitely some need to define regularly assigned. He also volunteers with local community organizations such as Higher Ground Men's Group, Men of St. Joseph, and the Most Holy Trinity Catholic Choir. Great investment. Cream only. Now, based on personal experience, I cannot say I was comfortable at all with the USMA grad who came into Iraq (2004-06). As others have commented, folks should remember that those Cadets that you give a hard time to will in a short time become those officers that are in charge of writing your NCOERs never mind the fact that they also will be your leaders when deployed in a combat zone ( I served in the 1st Cav Div during Desert Shield and Storm), in other words garbage in equals garbage out. Sure I went through some hazing ( Sir, could you go to the motor pool and ask the motor sergeant for a left thermal heat reticle calibration tool? I was sent all over the place until I finally caught on.) As a CDT, I was generally treated pretty well at my unit, this could have been because I was Mustang Officer in training and a former NCO, and that my CO was part of the cadre at Western Illinois, so she made it a point to assign me to a vacant officer position, in this case kind of a huge assignment as the Maintenance PLT LDR at a MED Truck CO, whereas most units dont even know what to do with a CDT. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders and as such know who and where you are able to receive the BEST mentorship and hands on experience. I mean, that certainly seemed to be the case at Airborne School back in the day. As far as I know there are no CTLT positions in combat zones. Then, abruptly, he found a substitute and quit the Army to pursue an appointment to the U.S. Military Academy at West Point. West Point grads are elite and you know it, Ask any enlisted person and they will tell you that westpointers are arrogant and on need of a lot of training. As a mom of a cadet thank you! They don't even have a MOS/Branch assignment or anything else at this point. More than likely you are just privileged. AR 600-20 lists command structure. *This post originally appeard The Havok Journal * U.S. Army photo by: Mike Strasser/ USMA Public Affairs Thus, I suspect a warrant officer's wife is addressed a "wifady" (wife/lady.) I wore the Cadet rank insignia of 2LT. Elite only in their mind. I have to admit that when he asked what I needed I probably got a little pleasure by responding: a cup of coffee. In addition, CSM Whiteford served two tours at the U.S . Nobody reads your comments past the first four lines. Allan intervened on Poe's behalf one last time and used his considerable influence . Command Sgt. "The purpose of West Point, therefore, is not to act as a glorified drill sergeant but to lay the foundation upon which a career in growth of military knowledge can be based and to accompany it by two indispensable additions; first, such a general education as educated . Paras 2-9 and 2-10, AR 600-20 further reinforce Scott Faiths important points here. MAJOR GENERAL MAXWELL D. TAYLOR Superintendent, U. S. Military Academy . Prior to his assignment at West Point, Sergeant Major Schlegel was assigned to the U.S. Army Medical Command Band at Fort Sam Houston, Texas, where he served as the personnel and administration branch chief and performed as principal trumpet in the Concert Band, Jazz Combo, and Rock Band. So there I was no shot, at my first unit on JBLM, WA as a 2LT and I thought that based on what I was taught that you salute all superior officers. Through conversations, we get better LT's coming out of ROTC or NCO's newly converted to O grade.. Even after more than twenty years in uniform, it still surprises me what I dont know about my own profession, and what I still have to learn from my NCOs. I did 24 years in the ARMY and have been led by West Pointers! Everyone knows that the lowest Army private outranks the highest cadet right? Youre right, Sergeant, a West Point cadet DOES outrank you. Enough of my rant! Only the pay grade the cadet holds. At the time the pipeline for commissioned officers in the Air Force was ROTC, OCS, Aviation Cadets, and the new USAF Academy whose first class graduated circa 1958. Upon completion of preflight we went to flight school. I had another LT in one of the other shops stop me almost with tears in his eyes that I had just salutes 2 other 1LTs on the way into the building and while laughing explained me to that LTs did not salute each other. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. As it turns out, West Point cadets *do* outrank Army noncommissioned officers (NCOs). The authors creative example about an NCO looking at a lugnut and an officer looking at the whole vehicle is nuts (bad humor). Things are changing around you and you're failing to adapt. Other courses attended include the U.S. Army Airborne School, Air Assault School, Combative Level 2, Master Resiliency Trainers Course, Battle Staff Course, First Sergeants Course, and the United States Army Force-Management Course. A honorific form of address indicating respect but only for officers under the rank of knight. She received a Bachelor of Music Education from Indiana University, where she studied both trumpet and voice. We are officers in training and when we get a chanve at a leadership role with the guidance of the NCOs it will ensure our success as officers. Is the cadet attached or assigned a leadership position? He previously served in the 282nd Army Band at Fort Jackson as head light designer and percussionist, performing in the Jazz Combo, Rock Band, and Concert Band. Somebody at USMA needs to ensure cadets are informed about their precedence in the order of ranks and teach them that while they are at AOT/CLTC, etc. CDT Vincent High marks! $64.88 + $7.25 shipping . I was assigned to the 25th ID in 1972. So when would a cadet actually be in charge? Even if that enlisted man is the Sgt Maj of the Army. (Contracted ROTC cadets are MS III and MS IV, overwhelmingly and predominantly.) I would argue that the NCO/CO rivalries have started as a result of more modern times as compared to past wars and generations and honestly it should stop. The Modern War Institute does not screen articles to fit a particular editorial agenda, nor endorse or advocate material that is published. A rescinding announcement is required if the temporary assumption of command is for an indefinite period. Mr. Mitchell is married to his wife Jill and has three children, Connor, Fisher and Sophia. While being true you must also realize there is a need for Commissioned Officers as well as Non Commissioned Officers. I highly doubt any West Point graduate will magically "see the light" after reading my imput on this discussion. Subscribe to our email newsletter to receive exclusive news, updates, and concert schedules for the band. 2LT Eisenhower, he was a 6' 3" tall man who was assigned to our platoon in 1992. I was now an active duty Captain with a right shoulder patch ( a big deal in those days ) and a couple of combat medals on my chest ( not bragging but including because of the story ). Both preflight and flight school were run under the traditional cadet model of upperclass and lowerclass where upperclassmen were responsible for much of the military training and discipline of the lowerclassmen. Officers and NCO's must realize alike that, they way you treat your future Officers (NCO's case) and the way you treat your subordinates (Officers case) will dictate how the military can and will be run in the future. Other notable assignments include working within the 2/320th Field Artillery Regiment, 101st Airborne Division, serving as the Artillery Command Sergeant Major, 3rd Infantry Division, Fort Stewart, Georgia, and serving as the Corps G-3 Fires Sergeant Major XVIII Airborne Corps Headquarters at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. I can't speak for the Air Force, but the Navy certainly does. Staff Sergeant Noah D. Taylor of Columbus, Ohio, joined the West Point Band in May of 2015. Command Sergeant Major Robert T. Craven 26th Command Sergeant Major United States Corps of Cadets, West Point CSM Robert T. Craven hails from Swords, Louisiana and enlisted in the U.S. Army in March 1995. A lot of people have been killed in combat because of the arrogance of westpointers. So you are incorrect when you say that Cadets outrank me. Something I wish I knew 50 years ago. Some of the comments left in this thread have really let me down. Aviation Cadet training was 15 months. For some reason a lot of angry major S3 types fall into this category. Working as a deputy or person number 2 is always a difficult task. Sergeant Major Denver Dill is a member of the West Point Band and an instructor of American Politics at the United States Military Academy, West Point, New York. The garrison supports a base population of over 16,500 Soldiers, Civilians, Family Members, and Contractors as well as supporting over 40,000 retirees in the area. He earned his Bachelor of Music in trumpet performance and music education from Ithaca College in Ithaca, New York. She entered the military in March 1999 attending Basic Combat Training and Advanced Individual Training at Fort Jackson, South Carolina where she was awarded the MOS 75B Personnel . I was further saluted by all enlisted personnel I encountered on base. He has developed the course SS493 Music & Influence, which he teaches in the Department of Social Sciences. Prior to joining the band, Master Sergeant Lane served as head audio engineer at Grammy Award-winning Sono Luminus, a record label in Northern Virginia specializing in classical and jazz music. First, what an insult to a SNCO that instead of a 1SG with 10 plus years of experience leading soldiers in the absence of officers A Cadet would be next in succession. Interestingly, when a graduating cadet received his commission, (there were no females in the cadet corps in those days), his commission was backdated 15 months to the date he entered the cadet program, giving him a lead on promotion to first lieutenant. It can be a very valuable and rewarding experience if done right and an unfortunate waste of time for the CDT and unit if its not. Not only do NCO's get shit on by their LT's but sometimes the LT is getting shit on by his Company Commander. The cadet qualifies here too because s/he is obviously present for duty, as assigned. And make it quick Lieutenant. Share on Twitter; Share on Facebook; . Serving the Rugged Professional", Survivor Outreach Services | Total Army Sponsorship | Safety, Human Resources | Civilian Expeditionary Workforce, U.S. Army Environmental Command | Assistant Secretary of the Army for Installations, Energy & Environment, HOSPITAL - Keller Army Community Hospital, Military Police and Religous Support Personnel, U.S Army MEDDAC- Keller Army Community Hospital, U.S Army DENTAC- West Point Dental Activity, United States Military Academy at West Point, Assistant Secretary of the Army for Installations, Energy & Environment. She has always been passionate about how music and design can bring people together. Your attitude will get you relegated to a Quonset hut in BFE. I respected his rank and expertise, but I detested him otherwise. Adept been officially assigned a position in the chain of command? Podcast I wondered about it at the time and this reminded me of it, is this more of like a courtesy thing where Warrants dont salute each other and shake hands instead? A Gunny at 29Palms RTAMS and a Chief at NASA/AMES CA are among my most treasured mentors. Officers, commissioned warrant officers, midshipmen, cadets, candidates are all affordedofficer status. They are everywhere and plugged into everything. I am a cadet and am military police and drill with them as well. In fact, based on my experience there are some West Pointers out there who never learned that. My first platoon leader was OCS, my other two were USMA. You know this, you are assigned as whatever rank you have in the guard. But usually, you're the one doing most of the work. But short of that, cadets can end up in just about anywhere. The one group that actually gave us respect and tried to help and mentor us were the senior NCOs. Serving the Rugged Professional", Survivor Outreach Services | Total Army Sponsorship | Safety, Human Resources | Civilian Expeditionary Workforce, U.S. Army Environmental Command | Assistant Secretary of the Army for Installations, Energy & Environment, HOSPITAL - Keller Army Community Hospital, Military Police and Religous Support Personnel, U.S Army MEDDAC- Keller Army Community Hospital, U.S Army DENTAC- West Point Dental Activity, United States Military Academy at West Point, Assistant Secretary of the Army for Installations, Energy & Environment. Command Sergeant Major Fraser has deployed to Kosovo and Iraq. Each job is as important as the rest. And I declined two Bronze Stars because some senior Officer decided to dispense them for every Officer and Senior NCO in theater! We are all us. I was one of Cohens blue to gold mustangs in the 90s. Now by chance he.be in a billet at some hq and psperwork comes in front of him about ration counts for personnel and what the job description calls for for a 3m Senior Cook requisition.. for his order.. what its called these days) hell be sble to understand better what the job description says. If cadets, during this valuable leadership experience, are not given the chance to act as lieutenants and acting platoon leaders, then the whole CLTC program should be scrapped. Of course, there is another reason to treat West Point and ROTC cadets with respect: they are not going to be cadets forever. Cadets were sons of the upper class and were, due to social norms, afforded gentlemans status. Your email address will not be published. When a cadet has to leave the USAFA before graduation, he is assigned to a reserve unit with the rank of Airman 2C. DeCA, West Point Commissary adjust . They aren't " in the pipeline" yet regarding training , experience or anything else yet. For example, if a division headquarters and headquarters company commander is temporarily absent, the executive officer as the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier who performs duties within the headquarters company would assume command and not the division commander. You are absolutely wrong. U.S. ARMY INSTALLATION MANAGEMENT COMMAND, "We Are the Army's Home - Cadet you are not a cadet when in you ng or reserve unit. WEST POINT, N.Y. - The chain of command for the U.S. OK, fine. WEST POINT, NY (Oct. 14, 2016) - The U.S. Army and the U.S . Command Sergeant Major Michel R. Fraser was born in Wilmington, North Carolina and raised in Conway, South Carolina. It's hilarious when reality trumps the entitlement issues of a newly hatched fetus. This article reminded me of something that raised a question for me after I received my commission and that had to do with LTs saluting each other. My friend confirmed that Navy Aviation Cadets rated salutes by enlisted personnel, at least they did at that time. Saluting a cadet completely invalidates the First Salute ceremony when they commission. If you salute a cadet, who is not a commissioned officer you would be making the entire "First Salute" ceremony asinine if cadets had been entitled to salutes the entire time. the leadership essentially passed off their job.. but i ythink it is good these future officers learn from those entrusted to prepare the sustenance.. instead of those that havent actually been in thr kitchen for a couple years. Some points I wanted to make sure I hit are: -No, you don't have to call them sir/ma'am or salute them, but you absolutely should show them the respect you would like to receive. The two year enlistment term allowed for cadets who had to temporarily halt training because of illness or injury. A very interesting thread. To this day I credit a lot of the success I had when I went on active duty after I graduated to this great NCO. Normal members of the medical team fall within a strict hierarchy (just like rank). Before joining the band, she served as an adjunct faculty member of the University of Maryland School of Music, where she also earned her Master of Music in trumpet performance. Jesus.. I think that it would be a huge step in the right direction for the ROTC BNs to send their CDTs to their gaining units with an LOI/MOU pinned to their chest (Im sure ROTC has probably published guidance along those lines, but Ive never seen it) so that those commanders will have some idea what to do with those CDTs when they get there. Wonder if each Military Academy Of other branches has the same rule/regulation authority.??? On Thursday, January 21, it was reported that the US Army launched an investigation after the unmasking of a supposedly semi-anonymous Twitter account the command sergeant major of West Point Military Academy allegedly used to criticize elected officials and former President Donald Trump. But having learned this, it made me wonder when this would actually matter in any meaningful way. We're also the one demographic that gives the socialist/communists nightmares because they know they can't take us head on in any manner so they go through the younger people to reach their aims. Combined Forces Special Operations Component Command, n Deputy Division Chief, Enduring Sites Division Baghdad, Iraq Her favorite moments in uniform include singing for the President of the United States at a West Point Graduation, singing the National Anthem at a New England Patriots game, and singing with The Roots on NBCs The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. -If you are a Soldier and you are still carrying around the trash attitude of the "good ole' days", it is most likely time for you to go. Master Sergeant Loy Song has played in the Concert Band and Jazz Knights trumpet sections, was a founding member and lead singer of the Benny Havens Band, and is now a member of the Support Staff. A CSM outranks a SPC, but you never see the latter salute the former. Appreciate your reply. . When an NCO saluted me, I didn't just wave my hand at my cover to dismiss the salute, but "locked up" a little myself, acknowledged him with eye contact, and responded to any greeting. And you'll have to deal with the reality that there are better men out there and you may be in over your head but don't blame others for your shortcomings. I never saluted another LT after that as an LT. A wise cadet will be mindful of their position. We were enlisted in the Air Force for a two year enlistment. Now it was said in good humor. Then we'd mow the guy down with an M4. Staff Sergeant Cardone earned her Bachelor of Music, magna cum laude, in . They've shown great patience, respected my process, and I am grateful for these SFCs, MSGs, and SGMs. I agree with you Sir. In my experience we rarely see a decent new officer come out of West Point and it's really sad. At Airborne School back in the 90s within a strict hierarchy ( just like )! 600-20 further reinforce Scott Faiths important points here process, and i declined two Stars! Asked what i needed i probably got a little pleasure by responding: a cup of coffee shit... 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